Several Question

[reddozen]

Long list... trying to fully wrap my head around all this stuff... If I'm wrong on anything feel free to correct me. You won't hurt my feelings. I'm just trying to learn as I go.

 

 

 

Octree:

scene.createOrUpdateSelectionOctree();

 

If I put this in my load script anywhere, all the models disappear. It's basically just a black scene. When should this be called in the script, and can anyone give me a very basic overview of how and where to work with the octrees... scene.executeWhenReady?, engine.runRenderLoop?... How do you work with them in real time.

 

 

FBX / Bones / Animations:

If I use the online FBX converter, it doesn't seem to have my bones or animations. Do bones need to be separate files from the meshes and then joined within Babylon? Either my FBX is being exported wrong from 3DS Max 2013, or the converter isn't exporting it correctly, bones cannot be combined into one object, or I'm not setting it up right.

BABYLON.SceneLoader.ImportMesh("", "../Models/Monsters/", "BGoblin_1.babylon", scene,function (mapZone, particleSystems){	mapZone[0].scaling = new BABYLON.Vector3(0.005, 0.005, 0.005);	mapZone[0].rotation = new BABYLON.Vector3(0, -3.141593, 0.000000);	mapZone[0].position = new BABYLON.Vector3(-106.345, 4.32, -13.905);	scene.beginAnimation(mapZone[0], 0, 296, true);});

Zip file attached with FBX, and *.babylon file.

Converted here: http://www.babylonjs.com/converter.html

 

Another weird thing... if I open my FXB in 3DS Max after I save it, only 100 of my 296 or so key frames seem to still be on the model... any ideas on this one?

 

 

Packages:

What's going to be the best way to handle multiple packages. For example, my game is going to have 20~30 maps, and stitch a few of them together by view range and user's machine capabilities. The main town alone has like 600,000 vertices not counting NPCs, collision meshes, etc. So ideally I don't want to have to pack 30 maps worth of objects into a single blender / 3DS Max file. What's going to be the best way to handle this huge number of files. I've tried loading a few things with BABYLON.SceneLoader.ImportMesh but once it's loaded, I have no clue how to access the loaded meshes any longer. objName = scene.getMeshByName("Rag2_bro_mtree_a_04"); throws a null object. There will be way too many items to be able to work with them all in a single 3D editor package.

 

This also brings me into LOD situations where I will for sure need to switch out lower resolution models. This isn't possible if there's no way to call back into the list of loaded models and set visibility etc. Maybe there's something I'm missing, or don't know about...

 

If there was a way to chain the loading of multiple *.babylon packages through a single BABYLON.SceneLoader.Load() call, then I assume that you would be able to manipulate them dynamically in the render loop. Maybe have some kind of function that you can push multiple *.babylon files into a single temp file to load? Then you can load as much stuff as you want up at once..

var fullScene = addPackage(fullScene, "package1.babylon");var fullScene = addPackage(fullScene, "package2.babylon");var fullScene = addPackage(fullScene, "package3.babylon");function addPackage(loaded_packages, package_to_add){    if loaded_packages is a valid babylon file format, then add the package_to_add to the end of loaded_packages    return loaded_packages;}

BGoblin_1.zip

[gryff]

RE: FBX / Bones / Animations and Online convertor.

 

The .FBX format is proprietary so unless AutoDesk gets paid for a licence converters are unlikely to include animations.

 

You might want to try exporting from 3dMax in a .dae format then either loading that .dae file into Blender or trying it with the online convertor.. The "goblin" babylon file does not contain any animation.

 

The standard Blender will import FBX (in binary format) but no animations again. There is an unofficial Blender FBX importer, from Japan I think, which apparently does import the animations - but I have never tried it.

 

And the .fbx included in the zip files has 296 frames when I view it in the AutoDesk 2013 viewer.

 

cheers, gryff

[reddozen]

Fair enough... I'll give it a try.

[GameMonetize]

Octree: You should be able to call it anytime you want. Please share a little repro case because I think you found a bug

 

FBX: The current converter does not support bones (for now:))

 

Packages: Love the idea. Will think about it!. But your point about importMesh should work. You should be able to find an imported mesh. Could you again share a repro case??

[reddozen]

ok... so update on the animation from 3DS Max.

 

OpenCollada plugin. With this, there's no need to even support the FBX format... They have it for Maya too. (Autodesk DAE doesn't work with blender)

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/OpenCOLLADA/wiki/OpenCOLLADA-Tools

 

This will put it into a format from 3DS Max that blender can read. I get my full animation keys etc. The babylon exporter from blender then doesn't seem to like some of the collada scene references, and the online converter returns a debug.txt of "The driver has encountered an unexpected error."

 

I will make a couple scenes for you DK

BGoblin_1 (Collada).zip

[gryff]

The babylon exporter from blender then doesn't seem to like some of the collada scene references

 

I will take a look at it red - see what can be done.

 

cheers, gryff

[gryff]

OK as promised red, I took at your original .fbx file with the Autodesk FBX Viewer and your .dae file with Blender. See the images below.

 

Image 1:  The AD FBX viewer. Animation plays fine. I have labeled 4 bones - 3 in the head and one in the spine.

 

Image 2:  The .dae file in Blender (mesh hidden) . I have labeled the same areas - note no bones just dotted lines linking bones which just means one bone is linked to another not directly connected. I have no idea if this is just a difference in the way AutoDesh and Blender represent things - or if it is a problem.

 

You will also notice that in Image 2 I have the head bone selected (green 1) but there is no bone showing. The green box shows that the head and tail of the bone are in the same place. Turns out that this occurs for the head, neck, hand bones (at least) as well.

 

Image 3:  This is a picture of the Blender Action Editor with the Head bone unfolded to show what exact rotation, location and scale parts of the head bone animation. Notice that it appears 3 times! And on some bones 4X! 

 

There are also a number of bones that are named "xxxxxxxnub" - at least 14 of them if memory serves me correctly - they don't seem to do anything and do not show up in the Action Editor (more on those later).

 

I tried to use a babylon file I created from the imported .dae file - I got a white screen and this message in my developer console:

 

"Unable to compile effect: default" babylon.js:1
"Defines: #define LIGHT0
#define HEMILIGHT0
#define UV1
#define BONES
#define BonesPerMesh 69
" babylon.js:1
"Optional defines: #define BONES4" babylon.js:1

 

 

ie no animated figure.

 

I don't think the babylon exporter is to blame - rather the DAE exporter and DAE importer are not communicating well with each other. And those triple animations ???

 

Will post another update later today.

 

cheers, gryff

[gryff]

I promised you more on those "xxxxxxxxnub bones" Well here it is.

 

As I said in my previous post, they do not show up in the Blender Action Editor - and seem to represent an end of a chain of bones. So I deleted them, and saved out a new babylon file. Here is the result:

 

Goblin_nonub

 

At least it now loads and is animated - even if the animation is rubbish (weight paint issues?).

 

Right now maybe giving the Japanese "unofficial" Blender FBX importer a try might be a next step.

 

cheers, gryff

 

PS: and just a  minor point the light that gets imported has the colour black. If you don't change it to white - you will see nothing.

[reddozen]

Very interesting... thanks for taking a look at this.

 

If you import the DAE back into 3DS Max does it still have the duplicates? IE, is the duplication the Blender importer, or the 3DS exporter.

 

Looks like it's the Blender importer that's not handling it well. I'm not 100% sure though.

[GameMonetize]

Gryff is definitely our Blender master

 

BTW gryff: I have almost finished the instances support for bjs (e.g. same mesh and different position/rotation/scaling, imagine trees in a forest).

 

I would like to allow blender artists to define this option directly in their scene: Is there somewhere in blender a way to define mesh's instance?

[reddozen]

Reading through the Collada file manually, I'm almost certain that this is a blender import issue. There is no duplication of BGoblin_1_Head in the raw Collada.

 

As for the Japanese FBX importer, I can't get Blender 2.69 to recognize it in the list of IO types to select from. Also, from what I've read about this, it will import bones and not animations.

 

 

DK, I will use that A LOT. I have some models that have 20+ clones...

[gryff]

There is no duplication of BGoblin_1_Head in the raw Collada.

 

I tried a different file. A figure, with no rig,  I had uploaded to Mixamo.com, rigged, added a free animation then downloaded it as a .dae file. Importing it into Blender - it did not show any of those triplication of the animation parameters. However, trying to use it to create a babylon file and viewing it - threw the same errors. Deleting those end of chain bones (not included in the animation) did produce an animation viewable in WebGL - but the animation was rubbish again.

 

If you import the DAE back into 3DS Max does it still have the duplicates? IE, is the duplication the Blender importer, or the 3DS exporter.

 

I took your .dae file and converted it back to an fbx format using the AutoDesk FBX Converter/Viewer, then viewed it. Image below is what I got

 

Is the original .dae file, the problem? Or is the AutoDesk converter just crap?

 

Make of it what you will red .

 

cheers, gryff

 

[gryff]

BTW gryff: I have almost finished the instances support for bjs (e.g. same mesh and different position/rotation/scaling, imagine trees in a forest).

 

I would like to allow blender artists to define this option directly in their scene: Is there somewhere in blender a way to define mesh's instance?

 

DK, I will post a file for you to download in about an hour with an explanation - give you some ideas maybe.

 

cheers, gryff

[reddozen]

Thanks man. We're looking into another solution now instead of going through 3DS. Either exporting straight to collada, or MD5 so we can go straight to blender. Do you know of a better format to start from that would give us bones and animations? Obviously our other OBJ format wont work cause it doesn't support bones.

 

EDIT:

looks like MD5 support is dead in blender.

[reddozen]

DK this may be more for you or whomever made the Collada exporters...

 

gryff,

I cannot duplicate your blender results. It doesn't produce multiple copies of each rotation etc for me, and animates just fine as is in Blender 2.69. So we're not looking at things from identical environments to determine where the problem lies... So we're kind of back to is this a Babylon converter issue?

 

 

 

This is everything for the Z,Y,X rotations in the raw Collada, and a break out of input, output, and Interpolation for a single bone.

 

<source id="node-BGoblin_1_Head_rotationZ.ANGLE-input">

<param name="TIME" type="float"/>

</source>

 

<source id="node-BGoblin_1_Head_rotationZ.ANGLE-output">

<param name="ANGLE" type="float"/>

</source>

 

<source id="node-BGoblin_1_Head_rotationZ.ANGLE-interpolation">

<param name="INTERPOLATION" type="name"/>

</source>

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[gryff]

Morning red. I retried the import procedure with the Goblin 3X this morning - always get the triplicates

 

Also repeated the import of my Mixamo created rig - no triplicates. This model had 5600+ tris and a 700+ frames for 52 bones. So it should be at least comparable to your Goblin model. (see image below). Why is there a difference - I do not know.

 

I decided to try other older versions of Blender to see what I got with the Goblin file and for the head bone.

 

V2.61 & 2.62: No triplicates, only parameters in animation = rotation in a Euler format, animation plays upside down, only 237 frames of animation

 

V2.63 & 2.66: Triplicates, parameters in animation =rotation(quaternion), location and scale, animation plays OK but only 237 frames of animation

 

V2.69: Triplicates, parameters in animation =rotation(quaternion), location and scale, animation plays OK with 296 frames of animation

 

My only conclusion is that the Blender Collada file importer is not very trustworthy.

 

cheers, gryff

 

 

 

 

[reddozen]

Which Collada format / version are you using? I'm using openCollada (COLLADAMax x64 1.4.1) and Blender 2.69's default Collada import. The autodesk Collada export for Max 2013 isn't compatible with blender.

[gryff]

Yes, I'm using the default Collada Import just like you.

 

Just tried Blender version 2.70a  same triplicates

 

The number of frames issue is solved - just had to set the frame rate to 30fps before import - now all versions get 296 frames.

 

The autodesk Collada export for Max 2013 isn't compatible with blender.

 

Yes I know that. Just using your "BGoblin_1.DAE" file downloaded from above.

 

By the way, after you convert to a .babylon file and try to view it on a web page, what error messages show up in the console ?

 

cheers, gryff

[reddozen]

See if this one is any better / different... (Sorry... helps if I actually attach the file...)

 

 

Here's a test scene trying to load him.

BGoblin_1.zip

[gryff]

red,

 

I tried the new Goblin file - still triplicates when I import it.  Error messages I get when I try to load the Goblin guy locally:

"Unable to compile effect: default" babylon.js:1"Defines: #define LIGHT0#define HEMILIGHT0#define UV1#define BONES#define BonesPerMesh 69" babylon.js:1"Optional defines: #define BONES4" babylon.js:1

Looks very similar to your response.

 

 

Scene is very nice - though a couple of textures don't seem to load for me - the tree foliage and the steps seem to have no texture.

 

cheers gryff

[reddozen]

yea, we have texture problems etc. We'll get to them. We have to get this new exporter to behave first. I still find it weird that we have different results in blender... Maybe someone else will understand the console errors for babylon a little better than me.

 

DK,

Did those 2 scenes help you at all?

[gryff]

I still find it weird that we have different results in blender.

 

 

red - so do I. And even more weird that my samba lady rigged at Mixamo with more frames does not give me triplicates. I needed her as a .dae file so that I could add hair and materials in Blender

 

You can see her here in Unity Game Engine:

 

samba lady

 

Will keep thinking about this issue.

 

cheers, gryff

[GameMonetize]

You have too many bones per mesh (69 in this case). You must reduce the number of bones per mesh to max 40 else the shaders are too complex for webgl 

 

(You can split your meshes in two linked meshes to reduce complexity per mesh)

[GameMonetize]

For textures, could you setup a little repro case with the faulting textures?

[reddozen]

hmmm... may be hard to reduce the bone counts... I'll think about how to do that. It'll have to be a manual operation for sure. Thanks for the info, I'll split this one up for now and let you all know how it works out.

 

How will I animate / attach everything in babylon once they're all split up? I assume that I can just use "mount". (See this post: http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1759-attaching-object-to-bone/)

 

Textures are my own fault, and the goblin doesn't have any applied just yet.

 

 

EDIT:

DK,

There's only 21 bones in the model. So the duplication is causing the issue.

 

Soooo... gryff... now I'm getting triplication. so weird. Something for sure wrong with the blender import script. Even tested on 2.70. Reporting it to Blender now.