Professional support for Babylon.js

[KerwinK]

Hello, I started this topic in the "General" game dev section by mistake... hoping somebody might provide some insight?

 

[Dad72]

Babylon is free and an open-source project with a public forum. There is no private professional support.

It is not an experimental platform either. and it's not a Microsoft project, even though it's developed by people who work at Microsoft.

You do not risk asking questions on the public forum, there are one large communities with people who know the engine very well.

Microsoft will never offer a subscription for this engine because it does not belong to Microsoft directly. Babylon is free and will remain so.

[KerwinK]

Okay, understood.  Microsoft is currently using it for production level work on a site they own i.e https://www.remix3d.com and since their employees created it as a "side project", I would assume it gives them a legal right to license it as a product if they choose to do so... i.e. since any intellectual property created by their employees, should be owned by them.  Anyhow, I am not saying to eliminate the "free" product offering... I am saying it would be nice if they offered something similar to what Unity does... i.e. Free, Plus, and Pro accounts.  That said, the risk I am mentioning about a public forum... is a time and quality factor.  i.e. if you are on a mission critical project with a client, you cannot sit around and wait for a "possible" response... and then do a trial and error to see if it will work.  I like forums as much as the next guy for their value when time is on your side… however, when doing business and have critical deadlines to meet... you need to be able to open up a ticket and have it resolved within 24-48 hours.

 

[Dad72]

If you have a problem with a customer, you can ask the question here and get an answer in a few hours generally. Deltakosh answers every day to everyone. I do not think that he decides one day to make a paid version as in unity 3D. I hope that will never happen. Anyway, the current free version of Babylon is professional quality, I do not see how a  professional version paying would bring more things to the engine apart from a private support that would be in my opinion as fast as here on this forum.

There are a lot of professional here and great developer who have great competence on this forum.

Be welcome. Babylon is a good choice for professional projects.

[JohnK]

Forgetting about Microsoft @KerwinK main question is

does anyone know of any private organizations or service providers who are experts in the framework? i.e. which will provide support and/or consulting in it's use.

and as I suggested in a post in his original thread the best place to see if an individual was willing to do this is in the services sub forum of this Babylonjs forum.

 

[Guest]

Hello @KerwinK and welcome to our forum!

It's a pleasure to see that you would like to use babylon.js for your business. As Dad mentioned Microsoft is not offering paid support for Babylon.js but instead let me (and my team) work on it in an OSS spirit. This is a win win situation where we keep developing the engine for free whereas several products at Microsoft (Including SharePoint or PowerPoint) can leverage a professional grade open source realtime engine.

In the meantime  we have high expectations regarding the quality of support we bring to all customers. 

For instance, you can see on our main repo that the issue resolution time is....20h (less than a day)

So I do not think we could do better with a paid support.

 

However, I also know several companies working on babylon.js that would be happy to help you so feel free to ping me at [email protected] if you want more info

[Wingnut]

Hi guys.  If I may add... "mission critical" issue resolution is the job of the webmaster/site programmer.  You use ONE version of BJS, and build the site to meet expected specs.  You test it carefully, and KNOW that it has no issues.  Then don't touch it.  Don't change versions, don't keep devving the site... just leave it alone.  Nothing mission-critical can happen.  THIS is the "production site".

IF mods need doing, or versions updated, that goes onto the "development site", which does not affect the production site at all.  Do all your tests... meet the expected specs, and then... push the development site into production. Keep the OLD production site... easy to re-activate, if needed.  If you created your development site correctly, and tested thoroughly, there will be no issues at push-to-production (roll-out) time.

You, as the programmer/webmaster... are the one who meets "mission critical" needs, via the way YOU do YOUR job.  YOU keep your clients OUT-OF situations that could be labeled as "mission critical"... by having great testing on dev sites, and having easy "roll-back" if something goes wrong after "roll-out".

If your in-dev environment is a good clone of your production environment, then you will never need a roll-back.  Every roll-out will work perfectly and be met with applause, and no roll-out parties will be spoiled by an unexpected problem. 

But, I wouldn't know, actually.  I have never implied to a client... that they could expect any mission-critical panic/drama-queening... to be honored.  I dunno if I would ever place my nuts into a client's vice... to be squeezed.    I would just say "webGL is an ever-moving tech.  Cope and deal with all the understanding included in that fact.  Perhaps re-think using it in a mission-critical role."   

*shrug*  Hang onto your power.  Don't hand it away, via hollow promises, just to land a contract.  Hold your ground, take a stance, and spank your clients, as needed.  Clients often appreciate butt-spankings over butt-kissings... because it shows you really care, and that you want to teach them how NOT TO DO stupid things. 

Kind of harsh, eh?  Off topic perhaps, as well. Sorry.   It definitely has the possibility of being "bad advice".  heh.

[KerwinK]

@Deltakosh thank you for your response.

@Wingnut When I speak of "Mission Critical"... I am not referring to a hosted website solution that is being updated.  I am referring to a client who approaches me with a request to create a "new" application, with a short turnaround, that has a "absolute deadline" for when it must be done: e.g. They want to use my application at a trade show event, or they have a major sales presentation with one of their customers that is scheduled.  As a business owner, I am then putting my reputation on the line for getting the application up and running for them as promised... i.e. and knowing that I can open a "support ticket" with the organization that creates or manages the software (and also being able to  "set the level of urgency")… will help give me the insurance going into the project, that I can deliver as promised. 

In my years of software development... and the platforms I have worked with, I have always had an account setup (i.e. with the organization that created the software)… where a support ticket can be opened... and I will know for certain from them, whether or not their software supports what I need to do, if it is a bug in their code, etc.  And, I once recall making a push to use some open source code in one of our products... and the VP of the company said absolutely not... i.e. because it did not provide professional level support.  I now understand his point.

Anyhow, I believe we have pretty much exhausted this topic, I wish to thank Deltakosh once again for chiming in on the conversation.  It is promising to see the statistic that most forum discussions are solved within a 20 hr period. And, regarding a 3rd party support system... that could be a fall back if one were moving ahead with open source project work... however, where do they then turn to confirm a newly discovered bug in the source code?

 

 

[Guest]

I completely understand your point. All I can offer is our reputation now

[Wingnut]

@KerwinK - nod, but that's lots of "as promised" that could be re-thought.  Why make (dangerous/precarious) promises?

The only safe promise is... "We'll do our best"... which keeps it wide-open and doesn't put nuts in vices.  No deceptions, only agree-to what you are SURE you can provide.  A promise is a gamble.  Spank-down your client for requesting/requiring promises regarding a fast-moving bleeding-edge tech.  Correct their un-attainable hopes and dreams.    Hold onto your power.

This rarely works for those desperate for money.  Those folks tend to promise the moon and the stars - deception out of desperation.

Sales departments are VERY dangerous in this way.  They tend to make grand promises, and then they expect the tech team to live-up to those promises.  In that case, ya gotta spank your sales team.

I could be crazy, though.  Nobody is quite sure.  heh. 

Granny, on The Beverly Hillbillies, regarding her doctoring skills:  "I only guarantee results, not satisfaction."