How good is Babylon.js?

[Barsik_The_CaT]

I need help to choose a framework for my game. I tried Pixi.js, but it turned out to be a terrible experience, because tutorials are not kept up-to-date and each version of Pixi.js had notably different syntax.
The Babylon.js seems to have the most active subforum here, so, I'm interested how good is it? If I'd want to do something with Babylon.js, will I be able to find an up-to-date in-depth guide?

[Lightnet]

For my experience new user. You mostly be digging a lot in this forum and there quite people are one or two can help. As well what you depend on the skill and experience in javascript. Basically you have create your own custom build engine or some simple stuff since you need to learn more than just wanted to build the game. It does math coding and handling error that seem to not try catch. There is not in depth deep code or how to setup the right way it all depend on skill and looking for right setup. Animations mesh is tricky and you can blend if you know how to add weight for each bones.

I have not see any better updates. Knowing they have their jobs to do while trying to work the people who trying to make some games or some apps.

For you should not create a big game but think small since I feel lag in the new version of 2.5 babylonjs. So you need to optimize how to setup your own scene and manage the object to be visible or not to reduce lagging.

There no good handling error in loop function that seem missing something as the scene tend to disappear and you might not find the bug you were looking for. Or it just me since I doing some just text editor without much IDE. Script build for it.

[NasimiAsl]

hi welcome to BABYLON JS

1. about version of BABYLON JS - BJS  is not change structure of method after Release version but in alpha and test version you most careful to use

2.about Pixi js vs Babylon js  it is depend for what you want to do more (2d and 3d ) BJS  have a lot of 2d tools but i don't know Pixi Js capacity in this stuff but i am sure if you wanna use 3d Babylonjs is best choose

3. about forum : BJS Forum is not same  others it is more like chat room under the forum structer so you can see a lot of activity if you ask your question with a playground  ( i don't know @Lightnet mean about 1 or 2  i can write 10 name  right now like @adam @Kesshi @dbawel @Pryme8 @gryff  i need Html5 Database for make list for you.   we have some people with Hulk power for fix your problem too   @Deltakosh @jerome @Wingnut  @RaananW  @Nockawa (you can ask for him in 2d stuff) @Temechon  ) . ** if you ask correct question  (not in alpha or beta stuff bugs ) **

4.You most watch webgl life in all  framework too i think that it is important in you define your Project 

5. i am very bad in English too i need go an learn more

 

 

 

[Sebavan]

Hello,

You can ave a first look at: https://github.com/sebavan/Documentation/blob/Development/content/generals/General/how_to_start.md

I am adding a doc on the new VSCode support for quickstart and debug. It is mainly contributor focused but could still help you with the tooling side of things.

[Kesshi]

I would say BabylonJS is very good. Good enough to use it for commercial projects (this is what i'm doing).
Till now its very stable. I'm very happy with the code quality of BabylonJs. There are of course some bugs (like in every software) but after reporting them they get fixed very fast.
Like @NasimiAsl sayed already, the support here in the forum is very good. A lot of friendly helpful people here.
But before you choose a framework you need to decide what kind of game you want do. If its a complete 2D game i would go with Pixi or another 2D game engine i think.

[Barsik_The_CaT]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I'm going to do a 2D game (a real simple one, it's just a university task to work with some kind of framework). From what I understood, Babylon.js has a canvas you can render animated sprites on. Do these features work with physics engines (Cannon or Oimo), and the collision engine, or I'd have to handle that stuff myself? 
Also, the 'Sprites link' in 'Main features' list on the main page gives me a 404.

[joshcamas]

Pixi is designed specifically for 2D, and has more power with 2D itself. So if your going to make a purely 2D game, I would for sure go for Pixi. However, there are limits - be sure to check them out.
Babylonjs does support 2D, however it is a 3D focused engine - therefore, if your not going to use any 3D tech, then it would be lacking to pick this.

Of course if your going the 3D route Babylon all the way, baby!!

[8Observer8]

I think Phaser game framework is better for 2D This is a forum http://www.html5gamedevs.com/forum/14-phaser/

Phaser uses Pixi.js for rendering

[aWeirdo]

+1 on Phaser  

[joshcamas]

Ah, yes. didn't know that was an option for u. +1 on phaser as well

[max123]

5 hours ago, Lightnet said:

For you should not create a big game but think small since I feel lag in the new version of 2.5 babylonjs. So you need to optimize how to setup your own scene and manage the object to be visible or not to reduce lagging.

I've also noticed a framerate drop in v. 2.5. Unfortunately, I can't fashion a comparison demo as I've added some features not available in v 2.4. 

But as others have stated, Babylon is a pleasure to work with (compared to my experience with Three.js), the community is SUPER helpful, @Deltakosh is always happy to introduce new features if they're needed (we're talking hours, not days!). Can't comment on the 2d aspect though as I haven't used it yet.

[rgalindox]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm testing Babylon for a new project. In Unity I have a parent object, and then setting up a child object is easy, in the Editor I move the object and I know the position and rotation, then I can write down the coordinates on the code. With Babylon I'm trying to do this but it's very complex as I have to move the object and test and test and test, It takes several hours to place the child object correctly. 

NOTE: The parent object position is not its center as I need to rotate it from another pivot point, so I can't use the parent's position to start moving the child.

Any suggestions to this process?

 

[JohnK]

@rgalindoxHi, and if no one has already said it - Welcome to the forum. When I started with BabylonS I got may things wrong (still do) because I expected things to work one way due to my past experiences but eventually found that things did work as stated when I refocused and looked at them with an open mind and took on board all the useful help I was given by forum members.  I`ll give an answer to your question but as I am not entirely clear what your question is it may not be a suitable answer. In your question you talk about a parent object and a child object but then you talk about moving the object and it is then not clear to me which object you are talking about. I know that sometimes people have problems moving a parent without moving a child so have given a way of doing this using a function I made in the playground that follows called translateOnlyMe which when applied to a mesh with children does just that - only moves the parent.

 

http://www.babylonjs-playground.com/#1S4VM3

More information about positions, rotations, translate and rotate can be found by starting here http://babylonjsguide.github.io/basics/Position and then following the further reading.

What I do suggest to get the best possible help available in the forum would be to start a new topic when the question does not relate directly to an existing topic title. Also if at all possible produce a playground of your problem. Even if your problem originates from a complex project you are already working on it is useful to simplify down to what you are trying to achieve in terms of a couple of meshes and what you want BabylonJS to do then produce a playground.

Keep persevering with BabylonJS, ask your questions in new topics as clearly as possible and you will benefit greatly.

[Raggar]

If you want to do a 2D game, stick to a 2D engine like Phaser.

If you want to do 2.5D or 3D, Babylon seems to be better maintained and performant than Three.

I suppose you could use Cannon and Oimo to do a 2.5D game, if you restrict movement in either the X, Y or Z directed based on what type of game you are planning, ie. side-scroller, top-down etc.

 

[rgalindox]

Thank you very much @JohnK, sorry I didn't explain myself correctly. I just want the normal parent child setting, so when I move the parent the child moves along. this is because I have a chain of 32 elements with a common parent. What I did for now was created the models and parented inside Unity and exported to BabylonJS, in this case it seems it is working correctly. But still doing some tests. Keep you posted.

At the beginning as I come from the Unity world Babylon looks so complicated, but now I feel more comfortable and for basic stuff is not that complicated. My main concern for the application I working on is to know if there are more commercial products built on Babylon as our product is going to sell to large clients and my concern is how good is for production products.

 

Thanks again

[JohnK]

Quote

My main concern for the application I working on is to know if there are more commercial products built on Babylon as our product is going to sell to large clients and my concern is how good is for production products.

Have a look below

 

 

         https://xboxdesignlab.xbox.com/en-US/customize

 

But probably best to ask what commercial products use BabylonJS as a new topic

   

 

[rgalindox]

Great news!!!! I'll give a look to the links. Kind regards

[dbawel]

@Barsik_The_CaT -

Developing within the WebGL standard is becomming a highly sought after skillset these days, and for the past 3 months, I have been extremely busy working professionally on projects using babylon.js. And most recently, just completed a project working directly with another member @Pryme8 - in which the project pushes the limits of touchscreen display technology as well as WebGL physics, importing models and materials from external applications, proceedural animation, etc. - and we just finished running the scene on an interactive 90 inch touchscreen display - which was highly engaging for the users attending the trade show and was a complete success. And @Deltakosh and @davrous - I'm trying to get permission to show as a demo - but it was for a pharmaceutical company so unforunately we're up against legal limitations - but I'll let you know as soon as I hear from legal on this. 

Back to your question - I highly recommend babylon.js, as even with a 2D game project, I find very few imitations on what we are able to accomplish; as BJS provides us capabilities as close to any work I was developing using OpenGL or DirectX several years back - as much of my work was building AAA video game titles for consoles such as XBOX and PlayStation.

I mention this as I personally feel that gaining the experience using BJS is becomming invaluable - since there are very few developers with experience in WebGL, and so much work now and will really be exploding next year. So perhaps using a framework which is more tailored in its' design and tools developed more specifically for a 2D game, if you are able to use babylon.js and gain the experience, then it's quite easy these days to supliment your income to provide you with the resources and tools necessary to carry you through the time required to develop a real product you can release for profit - if this is your goal. Otherwise, you may likely spend your time stressing out during the development process - which most developers rarel make it through and rarely deliver te game or application they set out to build. Perhaps your situation is different and tese are not concerns, but gaining the experience I now have using babylon.js allows me to take on well paying work when I need to cover costs and certainly living expeses.

But of course, it's a matter of first designing your game with babylon.js in mind, and putting together simple scenes as proof of concept that BJS will provide you whatever the needs of your game are. This would be my recommendation, asI get called for jobs in WebGL weekly beginning about 6 months ago - and am able to supliment my income greatly while still focusing on my company's own application which we will finally bring to market in Jan. of 2017. I began using BJS about 3 years ago now, and although I knew this would become a valued skillset, I still find it difficult to believe how many jobs are now coming to bear - as every single company and/or recruiter tells me clearly that they cannot find anyone with WebGL experience - so I find myself practically able to name my own price when it comes to accepting work - not all the time, but more than often.

So as many devs on this forum recommend  - as I do also - that a 2D framework would perhaps be an easier framework for you to develop you 2D game, this will not provide you with the additional experience required to seek other work within WebGL (in my own opinion), whereas babylon.js experience is a huge commodity and growing amost exponentially today. So I guess it all depends upon your personal goals and where you want to be in  2 - 3 years. As for me, I finally find my work within WebGL  engaging and interesting one again - after being bored to death repeting the same work again and again creating films and games on the standard platforms - whereas within WebGL I'm once again creating things for the very first time in history, and always a challenge - which for me, keeps me alive and excited to begin work each day.

I don't consider the above comments off topic, however I'm guessing this is a different approach to answering your question. But for me, I try to look towards the future, and can clearly see that babylon.js offers me possibilities to discover new challenges, opportunities, and technologies - and to both create - and to find a far more interesting future than what I might consider as the easiest path to accomplish the singular goal directly in front of me at this time. And I must than @Deltakosh, @davrous, and all others who re working hard to provide this unique opportunity for me to revitalize my interest in work, as well as to maintain my qulity of life and provide for my family. I can tell you that there is considerable monies (millions) currently being invested into WebGL, and expanding into the billions next year. As I mentioned, I receive emails weekly due to my (limited) experience working in babylon.js (WebGL in general, but companies are only looking for BJS or Three.js experience currently), and this has allowed me to pay for my company and to build applications which will be released soon, without the need to worry about funding and/or living expenses; and most importantly as we will have released a product to market soon, we've are able to maintain 100% ownership of our IP and applications, and are now receiving licensing and funding agreements which are reasonable without giving up much equity in our company. Which in business, is as good as it gets - practically a dream in the world of technology investment.

I hope my perspective is of some value to you and others reading this, but regardless, we all must keep the lights on, and all hope to maintain a healthy balance between our work in entertainment media and/or applications - and financial stability.

Welcome to the forum, and best of luck. Oh... and by the way, you have this forum to make certain you achieve your goals using babylon.js - which I can say undoubtedly that you will in no way find another community with the passion to assist others as we do within these pages. If you do choose babylon.js, I promise you won't be working alone on your game.

Cheers,

DB

 

[GameMonetize]

@dbawel Thank you so much for this testimonial!