continued_at_new_forum The Wingnut Chronicles

[Guest]

Unless proven wrong, we are allowed to let people do the heck they want on the forum as long as this is in mutual respect. If people wants to pay others to help them, I won't block that

[Dad72]

I must surely not express my thought properly. I understand this point of view, except that there is an illegal side of the thing, working conceal by a serious forum.

I do not speak of non-respect of each other, but a forum can authorize illegal work by talking about 'Job' rather than 'service offered'.

If this forum attracts companies to recruit, then it's great, some may find a job here 'legally', but this is not the case because there is no regulation for jobs.

it's work to hide and we do not know if it's a real job that is proposing, or if it's a real serious business. Yes if people want to pay for a job I understand that, it's normal, but it does not have to be something" public".

Yes people do what he wants to illegal, but in transparent ways (MP, Mail ...) But the part of the forum should not be called job for me, but 'service request' for example so that it's transparent. then the people deals by email for money. so it remains transparent because we do not know what happens and the forum remains in the legality.

I'm not saying that you have to block, but that it's more transparent, because it's all about working behind the scenes and posting publicly. The forum should not condone this kind of work in public ways, but let people deal by email/PM not calling this forum Job because it is not legally the case.

In short, it is the confusion of the word Job here which is not appropriate. A new person may believe that he is going to work for a legal business and this will not be the case.

After, I do not say that to annoy, but for the general interest, for a question of ethics, for the security of the forum and its image.

[Wingnut]

9 hours ago, JCPalmer said:

Commies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ☠️

hehe.  Yep... commie == commune-ity.  No capitalism, no hierarchies, no dictators, no billing, no ownership claims (titles), just love thy neighbor, and help them get down the BJS road... not the $enrichment$ road.  Just look at Deltakosh's use-my-code policy.  Not only can you use his code in ANY project, even commercial.... but you can claim that YOU wrote it.  That's... balls-to-the-walls loving/caring self-less world-hugging commie, there.  You can trust a person like that... with your most valuable gems... because he already trusted us with many of his.

And "social" != buyer-seller timecarding/invoicing.  That is called business... not social.  'Social' has no "us" and "them" monetary stances/roles.  It's a club, not a business.

Dad72 and I are questioning the Jobs sub-forum... for different reasons.  Interesting.

Perhaps "opportunities" or "collaborations"... or "team-ups" could work for renames... and a pinned warning that NOTHING stated in this forum is any bit legally-binding,

Maybe my "concerns" could be handled the same way... a disclaimer that states that the existence of a sub-forum that might lead to "employment"... in no way indicates a community-wide view about using economies/capitalism.

When looked-at from a certain angle... capitalism is a church of competing.  A religion.  (sorry for the preachin', here... but it needs to be done, to understand my take.)

We haven't had a forum user here, yet... that thanks a deity for every rendered mesh and every succesful shader compile... but they exist.  What would we do... if that started?

What would we do if this "God rendered my scene" fundamentalist... wanted a sub-forum of his own... called...  Jesus is my Shader?  What would we do, as a commune-ity?

That's what I feel, a little bit.  The Jobs forum... wiped some "we condone the competer's church" -poop... onto our "never-a-thought-of-invoicing-someone" commune wall.

I feel the need to wash it off, or paint over it, or something.  I won't cry or pout if "authority always wins"... but... I wanted to have a say... and now I have.  Thx for putting-up with me.

Here we go with further grappling, pondering, and debate... as wanted.  I'm making a nice lunch for us all, ready soon. 

[Pryme8]

1 hour ago, Dad72 said:

In short, it is the confusion of the word Job here which is not appropriate. A new person may believe that he is going to work for a legal business and this will not be the case.

I disagree,  if that's what the person is expecting out of networking through a public forum and does not do their due research then they kinda deserve to get screwed, which at that point its a good learning lesson.

Picking up jobs on here would more or less be under the expectation of independent contracting and as the independent contractor its your job to get contracts, protect your work and make sure you are getting paid. 

Job/Service request its all just different terms for the same thing...   Just like "No Problem" and "You are Welcome" can mean the same thing depending on observers presuppositions and understanding.

ethics wise I don't see the issue, bu then again I may be biased as I have picked up and delivered over a dozen contracts through here.

-PS I'm pretty sure nothing posted on a forum is legally binding... so I don't know where that concept is coming from.

[Wingnut]

Possibly flame wars, P8... somebody done somebody wrong... rants.  I think we need to get some more details about what Dad72 saw happen.  Likely a war, though, over a contract not fulfilled or an invoice not paid.  Or maybe a publicly-made claim... that was not truth or not followed-thru-on.

[Pryme8]

I can see that and feel the pain for anyone in that situation, it took me several years of learning to keep myself out of those situations.

First off interview the client just as much as they do you, second get contracts, third do not deliver anything until paid*.

*this is up to discretion of your perception of the client*

and lastly learn how to write nasty legal letters that request payment before you send a summons and leave bad reports on all available resources.  I've only had to do it once, but having the knowledge of what to do when you are getting screwed is important too.

[Dad72]

To work conceal this fact by MP, mail. the forum should have more transparency and not be too explicit.

That is to say, hey, here is a forum to find illegal work and to propose ...

For me everything must be treated by MP, mail. the forum is thus not responsible for a bad transaction or other problem.

For my part as a Frenchman and with our president, I would not venture to propose run jobs here, because this lack of transparency and Fraud in France are more and more seek with a tolerance of 0

[Magilla]

Does this sudden turn of conversation have anything to do with me mentioning that I might need to pay a specific member of this forum to help me with a project?

I hope that I have shown on this forum so far that (1) I know enough JS ( and coding) to be able to help people with basic stuff; and (2)  I'm happy to do so, and learn stuff on the way.

I joined because I have a project that I want to do, which is currently personal in scope, but I may extend enough that it becomes useful to others. While I have experience in programming, I am acutely aware that I have no experience with GUIs, 3D space, or modeling, and that I'm no artist. Sure, I can learn this stuff over time, but given the wide range of needs and attention required, I feel that it would be better of me to pay someone for time to actually concentrate on this project, at least until I get to the point where I can do most of the heavy lifting myself, and ask questions in a more targeted and and intelligent way than I could now.

 

I honestly think that what I'm doing could become a regular use case for BJS if it's made easy to implement, but I don't want to say "hey community, do my project for me for free!" I'm willing to do what I can to get this going (within the scope of my personal budget, time and skills), and I think it's important to do some hard yards rather than just expecting people to breathe for me.

[Wingnut]

Hiya M!  No, I don't think anyone caused anything, and it's a subject that could use some mulling.  I think we had multiple yells (posts) for "Hey, I/we need team members!"... and those type of messages needed a special corral.  And now, we are just talking it over, checking the new fences. We want to accommodate everyone, whenever possible.  As webGL explodes in popularity, we will see more and more of these team-finding messages.

You did nothing wrong, Magilla... nor did you rock any boats.  You seem cordial and gracious and friendly... we're glad to have you with us... team-builder or not.  "Team Needed!" yells are interesting, and money is being tightly rationed, so lots of people need lots more of it.  I would call it 'cost of living terrorism' but... I'm pretty biased. 

Dunno.  I'm not sure what to think of commerce, anymore.  I guess it will happen, whether we wish it wasn't needed, or not.  We're pondering safety handrails, as that sub-forum might get fast and furious... maybe a bit elbow-ish.  Could be stampedes and tug-o-wars over hot coders and hot modelers.  erf.  Might need helmet laws and require tire chains.    And then there's the tariffs and Trumpelstiltskin... but I think we're safely housed in the cloud, where there's no borders.

[inteja]

I probably shouldn't wade into this discussion, but here goes ...

I don't have a problem with the jobs board and don't see how it could be possibly misconstrued as illegal. All it's providing is another avenue for people to initially connect. Mutually agreed employment offers and contracts are separate to that initial contact and anyone who enters into an informal or casual arrangement or performs and delivers a bunch of work without agreements and payment milestones in place is taking a risk. That's just life. There's free legal docs and digital signing available at Docracy.com if anyone's interested. Require a commencement deposit and milestone payments for large chunks of work. If a deposit isn't paid, don't start work and if any payment milestone isn't met, stop work. Simple, and works for me.

I'm a progressive lefty with strong socialist inclinations as well but everyone's still got to eat, pay rent and support families. If you're in the enviable position of not having to worry about such financial matters then you can be more philanthropic and give all your time away for free and that's great, but sadly most of us don't have that luxury ? 

I think many people, myself included, try to strike a balance between contributing back for free (open source, providing help etc) and ensuring our financial responsibilities are met. It's not a zero sum game ...

[Guest]

I removed "Jobs" from the forum title and renamed it to "service offers and requests"..buddhism middle way

 

 

[Wingnut]

Let's see... umm... let's pretend that the new S.O.A.R. forum... was "implicated" in a multi-million <currency> lawsuit.  The forum had no involvement... except... THERE is where first-contact was made... between the litigants.

Let's say a little rant happened between the litigants... ON THE FORUM.  Mud-slinging.  Deltakosh uses his diplomacy, and removes the animosities (a section of thread).  Yet... the thread/forum continues talking about some things... related to a pending legal case.

Lawyers COULD get injunctions to "hush" that sub-forum until the case was settled, I suppose.  Not sure.  For forum users... it would be a minor inconvenience. 

Like some have stated here... the forum doesn't infer ANY legal binding whatsoever, so, I dunno.

I would like to hear more details about what @Dad72 saw happen... on that other forum.  Why did the legal system have power over public forum?  Sounds like maybe... it was related-to the word "Job"... which apparently has some implied legal aspects.  Interesting.

"Job" is used quite loosely and freely in the USA, it seems.   But "employment"... that's the word that carries some... umm... well... importance-sounding-ness. 

[Dad72]

10 hours ago, Wingnut said:

I would like to hear more details about what @Dad72 saw happen...

The forum is now rename. I do not really want to debate this subject still. By MP otherwise

[Pryme8]

Kinda sounds dumb to me... the word job just means a responsibility or duty.  The only way you could be offended about he word 'job'  is if you were defining the word as robbery...

What ever changes we gotta make to make as many people happy as possible I am all for.

But my opinion is moot,  I have no strong bias for its name to be one or the other.

[chicagobob123]

What is wrong with the hypersensitivity of everyone. GEEZ GROW and be more like a duck and get on with your lives. 

(Can't tell you in public why I mentioned duck put if you text me I will let you know)

"Jobs" must be "service offers and requests" ? Whatever floats ya really but to get your stuff in a wad over small

verbiage makes me wonder if you we all need to get out more. 

 

[Wingnut]

CB... you're the only one who has their "stuff in a wad", it seems.  We're all calm and relaxed in this discussion.  Are you freaked-out/drama-queened about something?  Do you get grumpy/hypersensitive when others discuss things?  I hope not.    Look away, if needed.   You're not the boss of determining what is a worthwhile discussion and what isn't, of course.

Be cool... stay calm.

[Dad72]

Yes do not ignite and create tension. There are cultural differences here that may not be understood. A debate can be done calmly. Everyone has the right to express his opinions with respect and without judgment.

[Pryme8]

 

[chicagobob123]

3 hours ago, Wingnut said:

CB... you're the only one who has their "stuff in a wad", it seems.  We're all calm and relaxed in this discussion.  Are you freaked-out/drama-queened about something?  Do you get grumpy/hypersensitive when others discuss things?  I hope not.    Look away, if needed.   You're not the boss of determining what is a worthwhile discussion and what isn't, of course.

 Be cool... stay calm.

Sorry, I'll just go back into stealth mode. I come off tense but am calm or maybe too much caffeine. 

 

[JackFalcon]

~ afalcon loves Wingnut Chronicles and babylonjs. 

Thank you for the healthy discussion. 

[Wingnut]

:)

I wish the Chronicles got this kind of activity... when we talk about creating custom GUI Controls. 

I was recently thinking about how our round meterControl... (shown there in 'semi-circle' or 'hemisphere' mode) could also be a rotary dialControl.  A rotary dial... would essentially have a stationary indicator "line" drawn vertically at the top of its "glass", and then a knob in the center would spin, and move the graduation marks past that stationary center line (+/- zRot). 

Spinning the entire canvas-o-marks would be easiest, but that could make GUI internal layout measurements... go insane.   Not sure.  This control, so far, does not use line 389 .height settings, so it is always square.

The other option is to re-draw all the graduation marks... every dialControl.onValueChange  (or centerKnob.onValueChange).  Dial turns could be boggy.    Perhaps a bad idea.

There is a "rotate" in the Context2d spec, too.  Likely, Deltakosh's control.rotation code already uses the fastest/best rotation method.

Perhaps dialControl and meterControl should not be combined.  Maybe I/we should keep them separate... both part of the "retro package" of BJS GUI controls. 

Nixie tubes, next?  COOOOOL!  DK and others build this high-tech GUI system, and what do we do with it?  Try to simulate the OLDEST, CRUDEST GUI system ever.  Too funny.

(Actually, I suppose pre-historic cave-paintings are the oldest GUI.)

Steampunk!  I heard that someone was building a "riveter" func/manager... it puts steampunk rivets on any plane.  User sets rivet spacing, rivet-size, rows, row-spacing, nearness to edge,  cross-rows/columns, and rivet colors/textures.  That's going to be cool!   Why have only 8 verts in your plane, when you can add rivets and add over 5000 verts!?    PARTY!!!

Btw, I'm lying.  I don't think anyone is building a BJS plane riveter. (sniff)

There, that should make everyone run away.  A little rambling tech talk will do it EVERY TIME. 

[JackFalcon]

.afalcon swoops in for the ... stuffed-bunny!?!

~ And fluffy-stuffing-flies in 100 random cross-product-dimensions... : )

Yep, building a radial-lock. Found same as describe above.

QUESTION: How, to measure position precisely after [unlimited] rotations? (or GUIMeter).

NOTION: concentric-sphere-facade over small-radial-cubes... STEPS:

1) Remove concentric spheres, and convert each radial degree into to many small cubes (OR rotated rectangles).

2) Material top of each cube (scale, rotate, etc).

3) Detect position precisely by local position of small-cube (and static-local-target-zones OR raycast on cube-tips?).

4) Parent small-cubes back to concentric-spheres (previously removed) and rotate parent.

5) Position small-cubes on y, so only the tips poke out of spheres (similar to angular tips on a lock OR radial-dividers).

RESULT: Radial-Lock with sphere as facade.

Design not (yet) attempted.

Hope it helps GUIMeter.

Will try 2 PG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle

~

 

 

[Wingnut]

Hi Af.  I think you are talking about the dialControl, and not the meterControl.  The faceplate-o-marks (the control) doesn't need to rotate for the meter.  Only the meter-needle needs rotating, or the circular bar-graph LED colors need updating.  (which LEDs/marks are lit, and which not - the no-needle meter - more modern, non-retro). 

I suppose we should temporarily add a digital readout (GUI textBlock) below our meter/dial, for testing values.  (Prefer blue segmented Quartz-Crystal LCD fonts - cool looking.)    Extra credit for Nixie tubes.

For the .upperRotationLimit/.lowerRotationLimit = null... dial, couldn't you analyze the control.rotation value, and know what happened?   

control.rotation/2PI == how many completed dial spins?

You could do... dialSetting = (control.rotation * 100).toFixed(0);   Then... a complete rotation would be positive/negative float 628, yes?   A dialSetting of +/- 1256  (control.rotation = neg/pos 12.56 radians) means we did 2 complete dial rotations.

That seems workable, but I make lots of mistakes. 

Who's going to work on the steampunk toggle switch and pilot light?

[JackFalcon]

Yes,  "Nixie tubes" === typeof "cool". <finally-clicks-it/>.

And "meter-needle", hear you, caught it too [as a-design-difference]. !important; : )

Hopefully we progress from opposite sides to same-center... Ray, tangent, arc!?!

Will try PG next week after: createSteamAchievements(32);

And time for a FANTASTIC QUOTE (unrelated to everything):

Quote

"Remember that this is a art board and the author may be kidding
################################################################
Please don't panic...maintain the control, don't worry."

http://www.gimptalk.com/index.php?showtopic=44529#p339365

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mahvin.com/2010/01/i-found-this-stone-texture-tutorial-for.html

from the-old-days.

 ~  njoy. 

PS. for meter positioning calculation:

Q: how about offset in localspace?

          - and/or as inverted [design-difference] -> from raycast at tgt (hit===cube-tip). 

Worth a try... : )

 

 

[Pryme8]

https://www.babylonjs-playground.com/#C0PXB0#1

Dumb but fun ^_^...