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[OMAR]

9 hours ago, Pryme8 said:

super duper cheerio secret project

I think I can guess what it is  

[Wingnut]

I was trying to take the longest route possible... to make a playground-based flow-chart of the many possibilities of safe mode... and create a poll out of it... to gather votes on which branch of the flow people liked best.  Why just solve an issue when you can first assemble an entire toolbox... with tools to determine which solution is most-liked.  3D flow charts, first.

2D flow charts are so under-powered... generally allowing only 3-5 directions of flow.  The lines leaving a node... can go down, left, or right.  Occasionally, a 45 degree line is used, too.

With 3D flow charts, the lines leaving a node... can go in all directions.  With me?

http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/21250-link-two-box-with-a-babylonmeshcreatelines-and-remains-attached/?do=findComment&comment=120938

I think GERDE is making flow charts.  He liked my connected-line solution.  http://playground.babylonjs.com/#1MJP1M

It made me think about 3D flow diagrams.  And in THIS topic, we are looking to gather opinions on WHICH methods (which flow-branch) for safe mode... is the best.  And then someone mentioned polls/voting, and then I thought about clickable linesMesh, and and and... it all went to hell from there, you see. 

SO, I was trying to get someone/us to build a click-to-vote 3D flow chart for this issue FIRST, and then see if we can teach it to gather vote tallies, and THEN come back and actually address the initial issue.  (the long way to success).  I am retarded, eh?  *nod*  I always suspected that was the case, even though I have repeatedly proven it is true. 

Take a look at Jerome's "network weathermap" thing (in classic Jerome-gray background color)... http://jerome.bousquie.fr/ .  Drag on it, to rotate.  Although it is not really a 3D "flow chart", it is still a perfect example of one.  Many lines can leave one node.  2D flow diagrams can't do this very well.  

[Pryme8]

Wing just lost me .  Hah, I've noticed @Deltakosh has not commented I'm wondering what he thinks of all this.

[Wingnut]

http://urbanproductions.com/wingy/babylon/misc/sf_flow.jpg

(Just a start).

Flow-charting the safe mode decision-by-committee tree.    Click on the boxes to vote for your favorite branches.  (...but not yet, cuz p8 didn't build us a 3D flow chart using a BJS scene where we could vote, and those votes would store somewhere, so he could look at the numbers later, and see which flow's branches got the most votes.) 

NOW are ya with me?  This is the ULTIMATE tangent from a thread topic and still remain ALMOST on-topic.  heh

When NASA investigates shuttle accidents, it uses "fault tree software" or something like that.  Every single NASA employee can put a "node" on the tree, and suddenly that node is pertinent and weighed-in (heard).  They wanted to know ANYTHING from ANY employee that could have been a factor in the accident.  Nice software.  Decision and analysis stuff.  Weighing.  Lots of weighing happens in decision-by-committee realms.  Heavy.

[Pryme8]

Challenge accepted, I need a MySQL server somewhere and access rights and I'll make it happen captian 

[GameMonetize]

Hello!

I updated the line to avoid setting the checkbox to on by default

sounds great now!

 

What is the poll about?

[Pryme8]

The guys wanna add more functionality to it, I think the the idea of is a counter that will auto put to playground into safe mode of left idle for a period of time and then in the first input after the timeout have the check box set back to the state prior to the timeout.

[adam]

This is becoming way too complicated.  

[Wingnut]

We're brainstorming.    Thinkin'.   DK, the poll was to TRY to determine which safe-mode ways people liked most.  Some wanted ON with data change.  Some wanted ON only when manually turned-on.  The 15-minute auto-ON was added to the potential features ...for when you are interrupted big-time by real life something, and when you get back to computer, forget status... or need to close lots of windows quick and do something completely different.

SO, then I had an idea... to use a 3D flow chart of ALL the possible configs, and let people vote by clicking on whichever branches they liked best.

I made an incomplete 2D version of the flow chart.  But really, I "made up" this idea of a 3D flow-chart polling system... so we could all have a bit more time to think about all the safe mode possibilities.  Long story. 

That's what the poll was about.  First determine just how many ways safe mode COULD be configured, get them in SOME kind of list, and TRY a decision-by-committee poll/vote to see if we could get a consensus. 

Besides, "taking the long way" like this... makes "lets just get it done" -folks... crazy!    I like that.  "Let's just get it done" is not the fair way, in a commune.  Conversely, decision-by-committee (by vote)... rarely gets ANYTHING accomplished because it takes just over 3 years to hear everyone's opinion, and weigh them all, and come to a decision. 

Decision-by-committee is a total pain in the azz, but a very important part of everyone-has-a-say communes such as this forum.    So, we should TRY polling someday, and why do it in 2D when we have the best 3D framework that no-money can buy?  Now it's a longer story.

Three things happen all at once.  #1 - we design 3D flow diagrams/decision-trees (and other data-viz scene tools), #2 - we all think very hard about all the possibilities of safe mode (in order to stock our new decision tree/voting app), and #3 - we build a 3D voting system "around" the new 3D flow diagram tools.  Then one of the docs curators reads my post in tutorial talk and builds a 3D visualizer for our docs build process.     But that's a different story.

All part of the new "push" to build more data/process visualization tools for BJS... which is a usage for webGL that has not yet been properly exploited.  Some of us... don't do games.  Some of us... do teaching aids... and BabylonJS can help.  (think about "flying" through our API/src, or viewing our docs build-engine from 2000m overhead!  Wow!)  Things like this... can help users (me) see the big picture of BJS or any large "thing". 

Try to avoid text.  Scene object... is a simple tv shape, mesh... a small group of primitive shapes, light... a light bulb shape.  Internationalization.... yay! 

A picture speaks a thousand words, and if we can generate a scene (picture) of the BJS Docs repo and BJS Framework repo... WOW!  That makes "seeing the big picture" of BJS... easy... for ANY language, and ANY learning level.

It starts with the most basic visualizer... a flow diagram.  From there... we start generating.  Someone makes a stack of red boxes.... one for each method on Scene.  Someone else makes some blue spheres, one for each property on Mesh, etc.  Soon, we are all "visualizers"!  As a fun hobby, we start feeding "data" from ANYWHERE... into our new visualizer tools... and viewing that data... as a BJS scene (preferably with no text, only icons/symbols.  But, pure i18n symbols is a lot to expect.  Difficult).

Does anyone "feel" what I feel, regarding this?  (I'm quite sure Jerome knows the feeling.)

Somebody, quick, show me a scene... generated by providing that scene with our gruntfile.js.  Show me the structure of our docs directory... in a BJS scene.... with various colored boxes representing various items returned via a repo query *.* .  Can you do it?  How 'bout a 5 nest deep drillable/collapsible treeView... in BJS scene form?  (Not with Dialog, bGui, or cGui... they are too 2D-like.  Instead, big boxes, with little boxes as children, with mouse-over for label display.  Use connecting lines, shapes, sizes, positions, and/or materials... to symbolize object type/class/traits.)    Cool! 

Drilling a tree... COULD be done with a "real" VR drill, yes?  Might need explosives!  That would be MUCH more fun than a mouse pointer clicking cGUI buttons, right?  You bet.  The 3D representation of Babylon.Scene... should be a skyscraper!    (It starts with a stack of boxes).

How about some XML?  Feed it to our data visualizer, and POOM, out comes a pile of boxes... green ones for top level nodes, blue ones for 2nd level nodes, hooked together by linesMesh... showing their nesting/inheritance line.  FUN!

BJS Visualization Tools v1.0!  PARTY!!!!!  (what an idiot I am, eh?) 

[MasterSplinter]

My initials thoughts were, "Hey that's annoying."  (I use the playground a lot)

When I thought about...  I thought it could save my butt one day.

[Wingnut]

Just a quick note (yeeeah, right): 

When I talked about using mesh for representing various classtypes (for visualization)... I also mentioned avoiding text usage (because translating slows us all down).

A while ago, Jerome helped us assemble some pre-plotted polyhedra... quite a pile.  Then, Jerome treated us to both color-per-side and texture-per-side... AND even doing both at the same time!

http://www.babylonjs-playground.com/#21QRSK#6

Isn't that just marvelous?!     Do ya feel it?  We can represent in 3D... MANY different object datatypes (scene, mesh, light, cam, grunt-steps, whatever)... without using any text!  (only icons, shapes, colors, sizes, positioning, ANY characteristic EXCEPT text.) 

THIS... is i18n at its finest.  If we do our 3D data/process visualization (BJS teaching aids)... using no text, then we all win.  The teaching aids are i18n-approved, by default.  Yum!  

SO MANY have yelled "separate content from presentation".  SO FEW have yelled "separate languages from both of those".

Can you imagine?  CastorGUI-2017... the year Dad72 goes text-free!     Wow!   Text-free menus and dialogs.  Can it be done?  (a little bit, eh?)

Oh, we're talking about playground safe mode?  Oh yeah, I forgot.  Okay bye again. 

[GameMonetize]

I'm a get things done guy:) but if I must admit I would love to see this visualization tools:)

Regarding the PG, the current implementation is data change drive. I personally like it but as always open to suggestion

 

[adam]

Safe mode has recently changed to always on.  I'm hoping it's a bug.

[dbawel]

@Wingnut

Dude, you on a path I've gone down in the past, and in my opinion, it is the future of understanding. However, I wasn't building this for humans, but for machine learning. By creating virtual "tree nodes" (similar to a hierarchy), and using directories to store what a machine has learned, I was able to teach my laptop to "learn" the world around it by itself. Similar to Google's main algorithm, any node can be related to any other node based upon some "weight." I was using a priority scale from 1 to 100 to teach practically everything - including basic emotions. And I had a function to visualize this when I chose to watch in real time how a set of basic algorithms were used by a machine to learn - which was fascinating. So simply setting up a few algorithms and allowing the machine to freely uese the internet to research on it's own, I was able to communicate fairly well with my laptop (utilizing the speech SDK in VS) after a year or so - and this was completely dependant upon interaction, so learning could be dramatically accellerated with more interaction.

However, in your posts, I see how this could be aplied to practically any system, and the "vision" you're "feeling." I'm with ya.

DB

[GameMonetize]

@Adam: this is not the case for me

[adam]

Weird.  I have tested at work in Chrome and at home in Chrome, Firefox and Edge.  I'm seeing the same behavior.  I open up a PG and safe mode is activated without editing any code.  I try to navigate to another page and I get the warning. 

Before today, it was only activated after editing the code.

[adam]

However, when I open:

http://www.babylonjs-playground.com/

safe mode is not active.  When I open a PG like this:

http://www.babylonjs-playground.com/#21QRSK#6

it is activated by default.

[GameMonetize]

Correct! I'll fix it

[Wingnut]

  First time I went to #6, no SM.  Did edit... it turned on, all cool.  Closed all PG's, went to #6, SM on by default.  hmm.

Clear cache, still on at #6 arrival.

Reloaded FF browser, still on by default.  Currently stuck that way, matching Adam.  hmm.  What the heck, huh?

[GameMonetize]

should be good now