Will Apple Stop or Stall HTML5 Support.

[sandy234]

Its does look like they are doing it. Main reason they didnt support flash to make their app market productive. Or else every1 would have just downloaded flash games for free.

They can tell another lie that html5 has security issues and we wont be supporting it instead we would be supporting something new like html6 or whatever.

Are they in a position to do this now?? and get away with this.

Back then they had lot marketshare now they are just 14% and android is on 80%.

 

[benny!]

I do not know what's on Apple's mind. So, I dont dare to preedict what their strategy is.

 

However, I am absolutely sure - that they will not get away with it - if they try to hinder HTML5 progress. Currently it seems that Apple already is slowing down the progress down - but they will pay a prize for this.

 

Best example is Microsoft. Offering the de-facto standard of an internet browser for years - they slowed down the progression of open web standards enormously. We all know that story. However, we all know where Microsoft stands now in terms of the Internet Explorer. In addition, we know how much money and effort they spend now in marketing for proving that they are supporting HTML5/open web standards now.

[mwatt]

It's an interesting hypothesis sandy234.  I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but it would be naive to automatically dismiss such ideas when there is substantive evidence at hand.  Nonetheless, like benny!, I don't think they could possibly get away with significantly and openly inhibiting HMTL5 progress.  It's too much of a burgeoning standard and Apple is too smart to allow such an up and coming juggernaut to smash directly into it's fruity skin.  However, I think they can get away with being slow to implement certain things, and being slow to respond in fixing certain bugs, or simply with making certain things painful to accomplish.  Clearly, they are doing this now.  The big question is, is it intentional on their part or is it incidental?  Are they deliberately being obstructive or are they just fighting to get a release out as fast as they can?

 

Time will tell.  It is good to be vigilant and ready to be vocal, though I am aware (thanks to Rich) that some developers are already being plenty vocal with little apparent effect thus far.

[Rudrabhoj Bhati]

Apple have philosophy since Jobs returned- "Our platform- we are the boss" so if HTML5 threatens Apple they would try to remove some key features which are essential for games/apps but woudln't trouble surfing normal websites mostly. They have tried to get music on HTML5 games as problematic as possible already. Microsoft statergy is totally different from apple, Microsoft is like some old Soviet style bureaucracy slow to adapt but then apply massive resource to do nothing. Apple on the other hand study everything properly, try to get best things to maintain there hegemony over there products.

Like Apple adopted superior Unix technologies for its operating system. Apple is trying to get things in way it want. It have nothing to do with conspricay theory, it is just what is clearly visible.  Though apple don't always win. Let's see how it goes.

[sbat]

They have tried to get music on HTML5 games as problematic as possible already. 

 

Presumably, by offering one of the best possible WebAudio implementations?!  Note: they had it well before Google added it to Android, even though Google pioneered the API, and MS don't have even now. There are zero problems with playing music and even having complicated overlapping sound effects on iOS 6.0+ devices (pretty much all important devices for now).

[rich]

I fall firmly into the "no conspiracy" camp. I can't possibly imagine for a second that they see any threat to the App Store and the millions and millions it makes them in income just from some browser based games. It's just not logical. Did Steam sales suffer because of Flash games? Did Xbox commercial games suffer because of Xbox Indie? The market just doesn't work like that and I don't believe for a moment they think that either.

 

It's not conspiracy, it's a mixture of ineptitude and 'not caring'. Originally Apple did more to advance HTML5 on mobile than anyone. They gave us hardware accelerated canvas first, they gave us a stunning Web Audio implementation. In iOS7 there are still lots of fun new additions (canvas path objects, new storage options, etc). Yes they screwed up the fullscreen, but this was a UX level change across the entire operating system, not something that hit JUST html5 games only. And actually on iPad it doesn't matter at all, it's only an issue on iPhone.

 

It IS an issue though, don't get me wrong - but there are worse ones! For example they introduced a brand new 3 finger app swap gesture. If you've ever watched a small child play an iPad game, like my 3 year old daughter playing the Peppa Pig app this morning, she uses far more than 3 fingers. She was trying desperately to "kneed pizza dough" in one of the mini games, but every time she tried it would activate the app-swap screen. Every time she tried the 'rolling pin' game it would activate the upward swipe gesture from the bottom showing the options / control panel.

 

Is this a conspiracy against pre-school app makers? No, it's just incompetence at carefully considering the impact of their OS changes before unleashing them upon millions of users across the world. The mobile Safari changes are no different imho.

[benny!]

...

 

No, it's just incompetence at carefully considering the impact of their OS changes before unleashing them upon millions of users across the world. The mobile Safari changes are no different imho.

 

Not quite sure - if this is really incompetence. Maybe they do not really care about the mobile HTML5 games market.

 

I mean - most of the issues we discuss right now are related to mobile browser games using the canvas element. Assuming that Apple does proper user tests - maybe they are aware of the problem - but simply set their priorities in favour of "normal" web site users.

[sandy234]

Steam games are far superior to flash games. Same is the case with xbox indies. But most of games on app store (over 85%) can be created on html5 with improvements in browsers.

This will let developers bypass app store. So games like mafai wars clone which makes 1m$ a day can be made on html5 and so can lots of other high grossing games. This might let to decrease in revenue from appstore.

Already apple shares are decreasing.

[mentuat]

Not quite sure - if this is really incompetence. Maybe they do not really care about the mobile HTML5 games market.

 

I mean - most of the issues we discuss right now are related to mobile browser games using the canvas element. Assuming that Apple does proper user tests - maybe they are aware of the problem - but simply set their priorities in favour of "normal" web site users.

I'm with Rich on this one, Apple have bigger fish to fry - I suspect html5 mobile web gaming barely registers on their 'do we give a shit' radar.

[rich]

But most of games on app store (over 85%) can be created on html5 with improvements in browsers.

This will let developers bypass app store. So games like mafai wars clone which makes 1m$ a day can be made on html5 and so can lots of other high grossing games. This might let to decrease in revenue from appstore.

 

I think your "over 85%" claim in insanely high. Here is the "Best 5 New Games" chart from the UK App Store:

 

1) Infinity Blade 3 - do this in html5? No, never. Not even with WebGL.

2) Angry Birds Star Wars 2 - again, I'd say no it can't be done, Mobile Safari isn't fast enough to handle the physics.

3) CastleVille Legends - possibly, but very unlikely - huge massively complex scenes being drawn with multiplayer

4) Worms 3 - again Safari could never manage the rendering and responsiveness (not to mention multiplayer) for this, not without a lot of changes under the hood

5) Dragon Finga - nope. insanely fast 3D combat game.

 

Even if they did give us WebGL we're still hampered in so many other areas.

 

And the biggest point of all: there is no way to BUY html5 games. Why would someone invest loads of money to build an "App Store" level game when it's impossible to actually make any money if you don't even put it in a store. There are absolutely no seamless billing experiences for mobile. Not a single one. It's that whole "ease of use" that made App Store the success it is. The moment you stick a standard 2 phase checkout process in there you're lost most your customers off the bat.

 

Even if Apple gave us absolutely perfect native speeds it's still never going to be so much as a blip on their radar in terms of lost revenue, and if it ever was all they need do is open up the App Store APIs to JavaScript and suddenly they get their cut back again (like Amazon did). Flash has had native 3D speeds for a while now, has that even dented Steam sales? Not a bit - the technology is capable easily, so ask yourself why it hasn't happened and how they can easily co-exist.

[Rudrabhoj Bhati]

Flash games can't complete with hardcore native games... If WebGL is supported by all  major browser then a challenge can be posed to native games, look it this way- we can't sell software but we can sell in-game things. Like coins, new players, skins, weapons, etc. Question is would HTML5 challenge native apps? If answer is no then Apple wouldn't do anything against it. They wouldn't attack it for no reason.

[rich]

Of course Flash games can compete (technically) with "native" games, some of the biggest indie sellers in Steam are made in Flash. It's not a technology issue.

 

WebGL won't make any difference to native games. Here's a few reasons I can think of, there are loads more:

 

1) You have no reliable access to the local file system. How large is the average native game now? Considering Apple just increased the over-the-wire limit to 100MB that should give you a clue. How many people will wait for a 100MB game to download to their browser every time they have to play it?

 

2) There's no access to OS features. You can't access anything really. No reading from the camera, no microphone, no creating notifications or push alerts (vital for persistent games), no access to any OS UI features. You're in a sandbox, shut away from everything and treated like a digital leper from the OS's point of view.

 

3) No ability to hook into in-app purchases or even direct sales in the App Store. Don't under-estimate how important this is.

 

4) No control over garbage collection or memory allocation. Very easy to exhaust the limited memory made available.

 

5) WebGL may render fast, but everything else is still slow. You can't run an accurate physics simulation, you don't have enough processing power to calculate all of the 3D math required to even power something in WebGL beyond a basic demo or very little game.

 

Anyone who thinks that Apple won't give us WebGL because it will challenge the dominance of the App Store is misinformed at best, deluded at worst.

 

They're not "attacking" it. Have you ever experienced an Apple OS product cycle before? This is no different to the first release of iOS! Sure they've screwed up quite a few things in the shift to iOS7 but it's not limited to games by a long shot. It's across the whole board - millions of web sites now rendering incorrectly, controls not working, gestures screwing up even native apps, horrible UI inconsistencies, etc.

 

They didn't break the display of the twitter web site on purpose. That's beyond illogical. This is just Safari's turn at being treated like Apple Maps.

[totor]

the inconvenient truth is : the battery won't hold enough

I'm pretty sure it's the same reason for flash or webgl, the impact on the battery. It's expected when you play a game or watch a video to drain the battery but not with web pages. If you forbid flash or webgl, you are almost sure the web pages won't be battery hogs, hence a better user experience and no more catch the monkey banners

[KyleNau]

I'm also in the "no conspiracy" camp and blogged about it back in November 2012.

 

The billions in app revenue sounds impressive but the appstore only accounts for about 2% of Apple's revenue. They make just as much off movies and music. And that's before the massive expense of maintaining the appstore is figured in. It's a razor thin margin and they make exponentially more profit selling the hardware. The ecosystem exists to support the hardware, not the other way around.

 

Ultimately, while significant, app revenue isn't significant enough for a company like Apple to cripple their own devices.

 

Remember, HTML5 isn't a suggestion - it's a standard. Eventually all web enabled devices have to support it (and all its features) or be rendered irrelevant. Right now Apple is probably comfortable because they have a strong lead in the mobile space. When you're that far ahead you have room to overhaul and play with the features while your competitors try to catch up. All it will take is for one of the other manufacturers (or even the home consoles / smart TVs) to do a better job and Apple will rush to take the lead again.

[remvst]

Remember, HTML5 isn't a suggestion - it's a standard. Eventually all web enabled devices have to support it (and all its features) or be rendered irrelevant. Right now Apple is probably comfortable because they have a strong lead in the mobile space. When you're that far ahead you have room to overhaul and play with the features while your competitors try to catch up. All it will take is for one of the other manufacturers (or even the home consoles / smart TVs) to do a better job and Apple will rush to take the lead again.

Well they still support HTML5, they only added new gestures and browser behaviour that doesn't really fit well with HTML5 games, that's all.

[mwatt]

I just read your blog article KyleNau - very nicely written and a pretty much crushing refutation of any so called "conspiracy" to retard HTML5 growth.

[ben0]

There is no conspiracy. The HTML5 games "market" is a tiny tiny fraction of the native games market.